Post by Richard Hallas » Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:08 pm

MarkMoxon wrote: ↑ Sun Apr 04, 2021 9:41 pm I do think about this every now and then, but I'm not sure. For now, I'm probably more interested in the digital archaeology aspect than building anything new, though backporting the flicker-free graphics of the Master version to the others is pretty irresistable given how minor the change is.

The thing is, I've trawled through the strangely Apple/C64-esque Master version, I've analysed the two-games-and-an-API 6502SP version, and I've dissected the canonical disc version, but when it comes down to it, I just love the cassette version. Why? For being a perfect jewel of a program, for fitting so snugly into the standard BBC Micro, for having complete gameplay with no loading times, and for embodying the pure essence of Elite, undiluted by edible poets, scrolling text demos, self-modifying code, garish colour schemes, unrolled subroutines... any of that extra stuff in the later versions that might make it faster, bigger, brighter or deeper, but doesn’t necessarily make it better. The cassette version is already the definitive edition to me, particularly if we're talking about the code itself, and there aren't any noticeable bugs in that version either, so it's hard to see how to improve it. I think I found my favourite version right there, but if I had to add anything, it would be the missions and proper docking computer from the disc version... but even without those, I'm Team Tape.

So for now, outside of the flicker-free graphics, I'll probably leave them as they are. Though the Master's volume control is pretty handy, no doubt about it...

Good question, though. I bet I change my mind one day.

Mark I do think about this every now and then, but I'm not sure. For now, I'm probably more interested in the digital archaeology aspect than building anything new, though backporting the flicker-free graphics of the Master version to the others is pretty irresistable given how minor the change is.The thing is, I've trawled through the strangely Apple/C64-esque Master version, I've analysed the two-games-and-an-API 6502SP version, and I've dissected the canonical disc version, but when it comes down to it, I just love the cassette version. Why? For being a perfect jewel of a program, for fitting so snugly into the standard BBC Micro, for having complete gameplay with no loading times, and for embodying the pure essence of Elite, undiluted by edible poets, scrolling text demos, self-modifying code, garish colour schemes, unrolled subroutines... any of that extra stuff in the later versions that might make it faster, bigger, brighter or deeper, but doesn’t necessarily make it better. The cassette version is already the definitive edition to me, particularly if we're talking about the code itself, and there aren't any noticeable bugs in that version either, so it's hard to see how to improve it. I think I found my favourite version right there, but if I had to add anything, it would be the missions and proper docking computer from the disc version... but even without those, I'm Team Tape.So for now, outside of the flicker-free graphics, I'll probably leave them as they are. Though the Master's volume control is pretty handy, no doubt about it...Good question, though. I bet I change my mind one day.Mark

For what it's worth, I can completely relate to what you say about the tape edition, and fundamentally I agree with you. But at the same time, I hope we're not talking at cross-purposes, or that I managed to imply something that I didn't mean. The point I want to be clear about is that I'm not actually suggesting that youanything at all, to any version – other than things that would provide a really obvious quality-of-life benefit such as the flicker-free graphics routines and perhaps volume controls.What I'm suggesting is not the inclusion of any new features in any particular version; rather, it's the perfection of each version within its own terms – i.e. to produce the 'Definitive Edition' of that particular version – by (a) fixing whatever particular unique bugs and inherited weirdnesses (from other platforms etc.) that version may have, and (b) the inclusion of appropriate bug-fixes to make all versions behave in the same, sensible way (e.g. not artificially curtailing the range of the short-range scan in whatever version that problem applies to).If you were to go about attempting to retro-fit all the new features for several versions into other versions, like (for example) adding the Star Wars scroller back into the standard disk edition or docking computers into the tape version (if that were even possible within the available memory, which I imagine it isn't), then (a) you'd be creating a mountain of extra work for yourself and (b) you'd end up with essentially the same thing in several very slightly different versions, and that's not what I'm talking about at all. I'm just suggesting it would be nice to remove the bugs and oddities that exist in some individual versions, and that aren't desirable, and making each version work as well as it can within its own terms, but still being left with the current selection of different versions. So it'd just be a bug-fixing and consistency-enhancing exercise, and nothing to do with back-porting any new features. Having some feature variety between the various versions makes them all individually more interesting.Having said all that, of course, there probablya case for making a single 'Definitive Edition' Elite that does, in fact, combinethe unique features from the other versions. I imagine that would begin from the Master Tube edition and add into it whatever features it may lack from the other BBC versions, so that it has everything that exists in the other disk/Tube editions. Perhaps it could have a choice of user-selectable front-end styles (mono or colourful space view, mode 5 or mode 2 scanner area, and maybe even the option of a new mode 1 scanner area with better detail). But that suggestion, at least, is definitely getting into the territory of new enhancements, which is against the spirit of what I was asking about. Clearly, if this sort of 'version to end all versions' idea were to be pursued, it'd come after the individual 'definitive' editions were complete.Anyway, on the subject of the tape version… as I say, I do agree with what you say here, even though I personally preferred playing the disk versions. Conceptually, I completely get the point you're making. But – you've said it yourself! – even though you consider the existing tape version 'definitive' in its own terms, there's no denying that it would still benefit from the addition of the flicker-free graphics routines (and volume control if that can be fitted in too). So therestill scope for producing a new, definitive tape version – even though perhaps it won't be much work.Whatever you decide to do, it'll be interesting to see how it all pans out. Maybe someone else will choose to produce some major new variant, now that the source is so much more accessible than ever before.